kind of audience they used to get, when president reagan wanted to give an economic speech he got, what, 45, 50 million, and he got the time in prime time. presidents don't get that, anymore, unless it's a real, real crisis. so they cobble these things together, they go on "the view," they go on letterman, they get attacked for that. ut, in fact, that's the only way to reach folks. >> rose: and they believe it humanized them to do that. >> but they can not get -- it's very hard to exercise presidential leadership in the classic sense in a culture that is so incredibly atomized. >> i don't think i agree with that. so if you look at what's happened over i would say the last 30 or 40 years is power has become centralized in washington. in the white house each white house i've covered is more insular and centralized than the one before and it's a relatively small number of people in the west wing.